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 Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play 
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Good tidings fellow forum goers!

I was just curious what the current, or most recent from last edition tournament lists for Space Marines roughly are? I recall Vulcan lists used to be good, but that may have changed. Any things/units to avoid/take? I have an Iron Hands army I wanna start using again, and my group is pretty competitive: I don't wanna get torn to ribbons. I am also doing up a newer army from the Badab War books from Forge world

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for advice!


Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:57 am
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Last Chancer

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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
I didn't test any of those, but :
Suicide Sterguard pods (5 combi melta, 5 combi plasma or flamer)
Command squad with 4 plasma
Thunderfire / Vindicator Spam
Librarian as HQ with Null zone & Gate of Infinity as only HQ (except when taking a special one like Vulkan)

I despise the concept of suicide veterans
I hate 4 special weapons / command squad (never did with the guard, won't start with the marines)
I dislike spamming an unit
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Space Marines aren't the most competitive army, but you still pack a serious punch in the shooting phase and aren't ridiculous in assault, so you can be efficient with them but I would advise a balanced approach with some allies to reinforce weak spots

For instance, I had good success fielding a mixed Dark Angels / Vanilla army
Either one for the core is fine, just be ready to change which one is the core depending on the number of slots you need
Basically the Dark Angels are here for a cheap Belial (TH/SS termi captain for 130 pts), scoring Fearless Terminators with 1st turn Deep Strike (that can mix & match weapons, TH/SS to the sarge is gold), cheap Typhoon speeders and they can have a cheap Venerable dread or normal priced Heavy Support vehicles
If you take them as the core, you can field a divination Librarian too (but that would be 3 HQs total with Belial and the mandatory allied HQ)

The Vanilla Tacticals are still solid with nasty rapid firing bolters, Rhinos are still good transports that are not designed for assaulting, but for rapid movement / cover / get in rapid-fire range
The bike captain + bike troops are very good with mobility, firepower & toughness
Assault bikes are very good too, and I enjoy small Devs with 4 HB / Speeders with 2 HB for a hail of firepower
In the same vein, Mortis 2xTL-Autocanon Dreads are solid and give some anti-flyer capacity, I don't think the Stormtalon is very good due to its fragility, an ADL + Quad gun is still the Marines best shot against flyers (you can use the Telion squad on the quad gun / icarus for a lovely cover save and a sniping heavy weapon due to telion's rules)
Vindicators / Predators are cheap and efficient, but I would advise you to take a combination of 3 to increase the number of AV13 on the table and not offer a single obvious target for the lascannons and meltas

Still lots of possibilities and lots of flexibility, you can field a small elite army, a fully mobile mechanized / motorized one, a power armour kinda-horde ....


Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:55 am
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Those Stern pods and plasma commands sound pretty destructive. I’ve been on the receiving end of a Thunderfire once with my Eldar and it was devastating.

Well, from a background point of view veterans aren’t suicide troops, they’re good and that’s why they’ve stayed alive so long. I feel the same way about Fire Dragons in an Eldar army.

I know VSM aren’t the most competitive at the moment, but I’ll still enjoy playing ‘em. Not sure I like allies yet to be honest. Interesting thoughts on the heavy bolter devastators and speeders. AV13 can’t hurt.

I am not sure I like to do a rhino/razorback spam list, nor a small elite army as I have that already with blood angels. A horde might be nice…

Thanks for the response :)


Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:16 pm
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Last Chancer
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Double flamer land speeders rock or the traditional typhoons and heavy boltor combo. Remember space marines are as good as any other space marine army at shooting. Ok u pay more for devastators but they still competitive. Space marine bikers are one of the best units in the codex in my opinion.

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Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:28 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Johno wrote:
Double flamer land speeders rock or the traditional typhoons and heavy boltor combo. Remember space marines are as good as any other space marine army at shooting. Ok u pay more for devastators but they still competitive. Space marine bikers are one of the best units in the codex in my opinion.


Thanks for the tips. I vaguely remember double flamer speeders being expensive pointswise. SM devastators are still pretty good as you say. As for bikers, I have one unit of them for my Iron Hands, none for my newer vanilla marine army, and a large Ravenwing Contingent for my Dark Angels, so will be leaving them out of this little project. No point in having simliar but different armies after all.


Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:24 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Mage wrote:
A horde might be nice…


It'll also perform better in most situations in comparison to thoe others options.

Next time you're out at the house I can run through some ideas with you.

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Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:47 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Chalk it down Jay, it seems to work for your GKs.


Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:30 am
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Mage you do know that there's a small difference between the two right :lol:


Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:19 am
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Quote:
A horde might be nice…

Calgar plus Guardblob plus Marines that only fight when you want them to. That might cause people a lot of grief.


Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:57 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
General Grouchy wrote:
Mage you do know that there's a small difference between the two right :lol:


Ha, of course I am!

Now, where's the smilie with shifty eyes going from side to side...


Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:13 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Stormbrow II wrote:
Quote:
A horde might be nice…

Calgar plus Guardblob plus Marines that only fight when you want them to. That might cause people a lot of grief.


I must read up on calgar, I have a nice stand in model for him. Have guard too.


Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:14 pm
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Here'sa few thoughts on Calgar for you, James.


Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:22 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
An interesting article, but a few questions:

(1) I did not really play competitively too much 40 with 5th ed, maybe a little, and definitely not with vanilla marines: how did the wave horde tactic not work, just out of curiosity, and why does it work now?

(2) Less a question, more a point: I won't be allying Guard into the army

An interesting article, I will need to start reading the codex again.

Not sure if I should start using my Iron Hands (already painted) of which I have a company done (6 tactical squads, 2 devastator squads, 2 Assault squads all at full strength), a bunch of different HQ choices, a squad of regular termies and 2 Dreadnoughts. I think I have a stern guard squad to paint up too.

Hmmmm... I might post up some army lists over the next few days and see what people think, along with the models in my collection of each said army.


Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:32 am
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Here is a link to the model I am gonna use as Calgar.

http://sciborminiatures.com/en_,shop.php?art=1158#i/2011/big/spartan_warrior_3_02.jpg


Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:36 am
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Mage wrote:
(1) I did not really play competitively too much 40 with 5th ed, maybe a little, and definitely not with vanilla marines: how did the wave horde tactic not work, just out of curiosity, and why does it work now?


Because foot lists just got blasted away in 5th ed. It was all about tanks.

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Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:00 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Mage wrote:
(1) I did not really play competitively too much 40 with 5th ed, maybe a little, and definitely not with vanilla marines: how did the wave horde tactic not work, just out of curiosity, and why does it work now?


Because foot lists just got blasted away in 5th ed. It was all about tanks.


Ahhh....


Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:35 pm
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Jay got it spot on. In 5th having 10 Marines was a bad idea as 8 of them were typically useless in the shooting phase (Bolters can't hurt most tanks) while in 6th with infantry in the ascendancy, having Bolters to shoot at guys crossing the board is a good thing.

Quote:
(2) Less a question, more a point: I won't be allying Guard into the army

Now's your chance to be ahead of the curve and be able to say 'I did it before it was cool'.


Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:08 pm
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Hmmm.......maybe it's time to give my Sternguard/Tactical heavy Crimson Fists another try.

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Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:18 pm
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
@Lenny & Mage: Try those builds with and without the Guard. You might be pleasantly surprised by the results.


Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:10 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Stormbrow II wrote:
@Lenny & Mage: Try those builds with and without the Guard. You might be pleasantly surprised by the results.


I can't access that link above but will try at another time. As for the guard, I dunno from a background point of view i don't want to use guard, and I don't really want to do what everyone else is doing either.


Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:04 am
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Quote:
As for the guard, I dunno from a background point of view i don't want to use guard, and I don't really want to do what everyone else is doing either.

That's fair enough.

If your list performs poorly in test games then you'll know what you'll need to add but you might as well run it sans Guard to see how it performs first.


Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:11 am
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
Your right Mage don't be a sheep & do what everyone else is doing, run them with orkz instead :lol:


Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:10 pm
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Limerick Dice Chuckers
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Post Re: Vanilla Marines and competitive or semi-competitive play
General Grouchy wrote:
Your right Mage don't be a sheep & do what everyone else is doing, run them with orkz instead :lol:


And here was me hoping to use Tyranids instead... :)

@ Stormbrow II

Yeah, practice games are a good way of telling, just need to find some time. Family, religion, friends: these are the three demons I must slay to succeed at wargaming.


Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:23 pm
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